Fascinating article. It has become the common internet trope that Odin is the Shaman King god, and the source comparison you did here was really intriguing for considering otherwise.
"Odin’s association with seid is based entirely upon a single event"
No mention of the Mead of Poetry or other instances of shapeshifting? Merseburg Charms as a form of healing magic? The confusion comes with galdr and seidr having noticeable overlap. Chants, healing, and shapeshifting... and Odin is also simultaneously the "father of galdr". The problem and confusion I have with the article is attempting not to talk about ergi and "queer theory" but the entirety of magic/shaminism/wizardry being distanced with Odin by effectively saying he in not a "shaman god." Sure, the shaman word itself may be Siberian, but it also might not. As Mircea Eliade suggests, the Shaman word to be of Sanskrit origin. This leads down the road of perennialism, but suffice it to say, Odin is a god of magic. His healing, his travels to the underworld... his name itself meaning frenzy or ecstasy.
I like the investigation we take to understand the gods, but at the end of the day, we will never fully comprehend them, because they are gods.
I tried to make it clear near the beginning of the article that seid is just a particularly feminine subset of Norse magic. The reason I didn’t mention shapeshifting is because shapeshifting is not generally portrayed as argr in the sources. The same is true of healing. You are correct that Odin is very strongly associated with magic, but there is only one event in which the magic he uses is portrayed as argr.
With regard to shamanism, my larger point is that there is no reason to believe that Odin functions like a shaman from outside of the Norse culture. This is not meant to distance him from all magic and wizardry, only from non-Norse shamanism specifically. This is an important distinction to make because there is a lot of conjecture floating around that only makes sense if Odin behaves like a Sámi/Siberian shaman.
I agree with you that the Norse gods are not fully comprehensible to us in the modern period, not because they are gods but because our information is limited. The goal is not to fully understand an incomprehensible being but to get as close as we can to an understanding like the pre-Christian believers had. In this case, we are not very well served by accepting any modern interpretation as valid just because gods are not fully comprehensible. We are looking for good evidence that ancient people believed in any particular way.
I found you through Reddit, and as someone who practices a Norse inspired religion, it was a must-follow.
This is very good and excellently written and insightful. Thanks very much!
Fascinating article. It has become the common internet trope that Odin is the Shaman King god, and the source comparison you did here was really intriguing for considering otherwise.
"Odin’s association with seid is based entirely upon a single event"
No mention of the Mead of Poetry or other instances of shapeshifting? Merseburg Charms as a form of healing magic? The confusion comes with galdr and seidr having noticeable overlap. Chants, healing, and shapeshifting... and Odin is also simultaneously the "father of galdr". The problem and confusion I have with the article is attempting not to talk about ergi and "queer theory" but the entirety of magic/shaminism/wizardry being distanced with Odin by effectively saying he in not a "shaman god." Sure, the shaman word itself may be Siberian, but it also might not. As Mircea Eliade suggests, the Shaman word to be of Sanskrit origin. This leads down the road of perennialism, but suffice it to say, Odin is a god of magic. His healing, his travels to the underworld... his name itself meaning frenzy or ecstasy.
I like the investigation we take to understand the gods, but at the end of the day, we will never fully comprehend them, because they are gods.
I tried to make it clear near the beginning of the article that seid is just a particularly feminine subset of Norse magic. The reason I didn’t mention shapeshifting is because shapeshifting is not generally portrayed as argr in the sources. The same is true of healing. You are correct that Odin is very strongly associated with magic, but there is only one event in which the magic he uses is portrayed as argr.
With regard to shamanism, my larger point is that there is no reason to believe that Odin functions like a shaman from outside of the Norse culture. This is not meant to distance him from all magic and wizardry, only from non-Norse shamanism specifically. This is an important distinction to make because there is a lot of conjecture floating around that only makes sense if Odin behaves like a Sámi/Siberian shaman.
I agree with you that the Norse gods are not fully comprehensible to us in the modern period, not because they are gods but because our information is limited. The goal is not to fully understand an incomprehensible being but to get as close as we can to an understanding like the pre-Christian believers had. In this case, we are not very well served by accepting any modern interpretation as valid just because gods are not fully comprehensible. We are looking for good evidence that ancient people believed in any particular way.